Zoom Q3HD with and without the Zoom H2
I’ve been a bit frustrated as I thought about using the Q3HD in the field. We’re getting ready to head to O`ahu and I’m looking forward to shooting outdoors in the beautiful scenery and weather there. As good as the Q3HD mics are, their sensitivity is a bit low, and they’re going to be pretty far away to pick up the sound of an acoustic guitar outside. I would really like to see a preamp for external stereo mics, like the 1/8″ mic input on the H4n. With this feature I could use my very effective Rode NT4 stereo mic and put some very nice audio into my videos. With the current configuration I would need a portable battery powered preamp, adding to the size, weight, and complication on every shoot.
How About That H2
Then I remembered the excellent quality of the headphone/Line Out on my Zoom H2. While the quality is not quite at the level of the NT4 through a fine preamp, the H2 does a nice job of capturing clean, accurate audio. In the past I’ve used the H2 as a powered mic feeding the Kodak Zi8 and the Sanyo Xacti HD2000 mic inputs. This was always problematic, because the sensitivity of the mic inputs is a poor match for the output of the H2. It took a lot of experimenting to get the right level, then the camera preamp would wreck the audio anyway. Since the Q3HD audio input is called Line In, it should be a much better match for the Line Out of the H2. Another huge plus – the Q has metering!! This is a feature that is usually reserved for much pricier camcorders, and it definitely adds to the usability of the Q.
Time for a Test
With the house all to myself for the morning I set up in our bedroom to enjoy the lovely morning light, and shot video clips with the H2 as a Line In source as well as a few using the camera mic at various distances. With the construction project down the block and the heater going on an off, there’s plenty of ambient noise to stress test the various recording tactics. I shot a “making of” video using a Panasonic Lumix ZS3. I did a terrible job of setting the camera for the conditions, don’t blame the Panny.
I also didn’t bring a tape measure to the shoot (I learn a little every time, but at my age I forget a bit as well) or frame the close shots very well. I’ve thought about reshooting to get accurate measurements, but then I realized that each of us will be working with different conditions and different goals, so the exact distance will depend on the situation.
Interesingly, only the last shot with the Q3HD camera mic had audio quality similar to the H2 miked shot, and by that time the camera was at about the same distance as the H2 had been.
Field Recorder as Powered Mic
Naturally this technique of using a field recorder as a powered mic will work with any recorder that provides a monitoring signal in its headphone output. The problem might arise that the headphone output is low in quality, this was certainly true of the Fostex FR2-LE, for instance. Great recordings, but terrible monitoring sound. But if you have a recorder with a good clean headphone output, you have a tool to improve the audio in your Q3HD video clips.
I’m calling this experiment a success. I’m happy with the video I made using the H2 as a powered mic into the Line In of the Q3HD. I even have a wind sock for the H2, so I’m all set for shooting in the tropical tradewinds.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, December 1st, 2010 at 10:35 pm and is filed under Audio, Tutorials, Video. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Bron Faison said in post # 1,
on December 15th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Nice job on the video editing!
Grace H said in post # 2,
on December 17th, 2010 at 3:01 am
Hi Fran,
I ran across your blog while I was looking up reviews for the Q3HD, and I really appreciate the reviews you have written in particular. I’ve been trying to decide whether or not to buy the Q3HD for a project I’m doing that involves recording interviews in non-controlled settings. Sound is really important to me for this, but I think video is also useful, especially since the material I’m trying to document will end up going into an historical archive. What do you think? Do you think the Q3HD could handle the job or should I get an audio recorder/camcorder combination instead? I’m working on a somewhat decent budget, but not enough to get a professional-grade camcorder.
Thanks and happy holidays!
Grace
Jim S said in post # 3,
on December 20th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Hi Fran –
Your posts are very informative. Thanks for your work.
Fran Guidry said in post # 4,
on December 20th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Thanks, Jim S and Bron.
Grace, I believe I responded to you by email, at least I hope so. In my very unexpert opinion I would probably look for a more conventional camera for important historical recording in uncontrolled conditions. The Q3HD works best with lots of light, and lacks features like optical zoom and optical image stabilization.
Fran
Richard said in post # 5,
on January 22nd, 2011 at 12:27 am
Fran,
Thanks for the videos. Currently I record myself playing guitar (Gibson J45 acoustic/electric) using a Yamaha audiogram 6 usb preamp. I also have a Shure SM57 microphone. I want to record myself with video and good audio as well. The Zoom Q3HD has great sound, but I like the overall features of the Sanyo Xacti HD-2000. If I get the Sanyo I am not sure if I can interface my SM57 with the 2.5mm jack. Would I need to get a new mic? If I get the Zoom Q3HD I am not sure if I will be happy with it as normal camcorder.
What would you suggest?
Thanks,
Richard
Fran Guidry said in post # 6,
on January 22nd, 2011 at 12:58 am
Richard, the HD2000 has been my favorite camera since I got it. But then I’ve been working my way through the low end of things, so I’m a long way from an expert. I love all the manual controls, the good low light performance, the articulated screen, the compact size, and the excellent video quality.
However, I was disappointed with the audio input on the Xacti. I did a couple of clips by plugging my mixer into the HD2000 and it was just OK. There’s still some auto level processing going on, and the frequency response and distortion are not really good by audio standards. I like the sound of my Zoom H2 better.
But it’s not hard to get into the 2.5mm jack on the HD2000. It comes with an adapter, and they’re cheap to buy. Getting from the SM57 to the 3.5mm adapter will take several adapters or a special cable. I’ve seen one by Hosa that has XLR, unbalancing stepup transformer, one to two channel splitter, and 3.5mm plug, so that has all the features needed to connect an SM57 to the HD2000, if you add the 3.5->2.5mm adapter that comes with the camera.
My recommendation for the best audio for your videos is to use a separate recorder. I’m happy with my Zoom H2, but there are lots of choices out there. Then it’s not really too hard to sync the audio and video when you edit your clips.
Fran
steve said in post # 7,
on March 8th, 2011 at 2:13 am
Thanks for the nice video.
Is it possible to connect the rode nt4 to the mic input of hd2000 directly? how is the quality?
Steve
Fran Guidry said in post # 8,
on March 8th, 2011 at 8:57 am
You can connect the NT4 to the HD2000. You can hear this combination in the video in this post: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2010/11/28/a-first-look-at-the-zoom-q3hd/
Fran
billb said in post # 9,
on April 11th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
great info I had thought about getting HdQ3 but I opted for the Kodak Zi8 with external mic input. I can experiment using the Zoom H2 and Sony D870 for best audio and since the price on Zi8 has dropped below 80.00 I think this is a great deal
KillarneyMusicClub said in post # 10,
on April 19th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
Hello there. Greetings from Ireland. Thanks for a very informing page. Was trying to find a page like this for quite awhile. Hopefully you can answer my question. We use a q3hd to post some videos on youtube but struggle to achieve a good picture, yet we are very happy with the sound. Is it possible to use the q3hd as an audio only device connected to a separate video recorder such as the Kodak zi8 or the sanyo xacti you have mentioned(there is a sanyo xacti gh1 on sale in a shop near us which seems nice).
Thanking you and enjoying your music,
KillarneyMusicClub
Fran Guidry said in post # 11,
on April 19th, 2011 at 10:43 pm
Was your “You Got It” video done with the Q3HD? If so, I don’t think you’ll improve that video by using a Zi8. And the Xacti you mention doesn’t have an audio input.
But to answer your question directly, yes, you can use any recorder with a high quality headphone output as a “powered mic” device, so the Q would work well for that.
Fran
Mark N said in post # 12,
on October 8th, 2011 at 3:55 pm
wow…fantastic fun! Great work!
Hans said in post # 13,
on December 9th, 2012 at 11:51 am
Hello again Fran,
This looks pretty awesome . I just have a couple of questions: Do you just connect the Q3HD and the H2N with a mini-jack to mini-jack cable and then the audio frm the H2N is automaticaly synced with the video of the Q3HD? And since the H2N can be placed very close I assume the resulting audio from this setup has the volume one would like without need of raising it afterwards?As I’m considering buying the H2N pretty much just to be able to do this, I would also like to ask you if there is another recorder you would recommend over it?
Thanks a bunch – once again,
Hans
Fran Guidry said in post # 14,
on December 9th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
Hi, Hans,
Yes, 1/8″ (3.5mm) stereo male on both ends of the cable. We’re taking the headphone output of the H2 into the Line In of the Q3HD.
This setup will deliver the highest volume the Q3HD can record without distortion, but even with this setup I might bump the level on the Q3HD in post production, because people seem to expect pretty loud sound. Basically, the normal recording workflow has lower perceived volume in tracking (recording) than in the delivery medium, so some kind of compression/limiting is often used for the final output.
Any recorder with a headphone output and the ability to monitor the recording process will work for this trick. The Zoom H1 or Tascam DR-07 MkII for instance would work fine and cost less than the H2n.
Fran
Hans said in post # 15,
on December 10th, 2012 at 6:29 am
Thanks Fran! And the Zoom H1 is certainly a price friendly option – but wouldn’t the audio quality be better with the H2N?
Hans
Fran Guidry said in post # 16,
on December 10th, 2012 at 7:32 am
I haven’t personally used the H1, but I understand that the audio quality is quite similar to the H2n. You might visit the Zoom forum and ask around there.
Fran
Hans said in post # 17,
on December 11th, 2012 at 9:18 am
Thanks, I’ve checked it out a bit, and it seems they are quite similar though most give the H2N the edge. It of course also has some more options that may or may not come in handy.
But to expand the possibilities even more, I guess the H4N would work as well? I am considering it since I can maybe get a good deal on one and then I would have the option of plugging external mics directly into it since it has the two XLR outs. That would also allow me to do a “Q3HD > H4N > external mics” setup, which seems cool though maybe it’s getting to be a bit overkill since just Q3HD > H4N would probably work pretty great.
Hans
Fran Guidry said in post # 18,
on December 11th, 2012 at 10:19 am
If you can get a headphone out or line out from your recorder, this trick will work. If the output is very clean it’s better, of course. There are recorders (the Fostex FR2-LE is a classic example) which have very good inputs but terrible headphone output, so something like this would be a bad choice.
The H4n is a very attractive device indeed, quite flexible. And it would do fine in this application.
Fran
Halil said in post # 19,
on July 18th, 2013 at 12:19 pm
Hi Fran,
Thanks for the great blog. Is it possible to use a stereo RCA cable with a Y adaptor on both ends to connect the H2 to the Q3HD for this application?
Fran Guidry said in post # 20,
on July 18th, 2013 at 5:03 pm
Sure, any cable combination that gives you 1/8″ stereo male on both ends will work, but the more adapters you use the more likelihood of a problem.
Thanks for stopping by.
Fran
vincent said in post # 21,
on March 31st, 2014 at 2:26 pm
hi fran,
first, thx u for your videos, it help me so much.
well, i ve a q3hd an a little camera sanyo xacti without line in or out.
after seeing your video, i m really impressed about the sound u get with this set up. here re my questions :
the sound of the video is without treatment ? do we only ear the sound of the h2?
and do u think it ll worth it to buy a h2 or i can deal with my stuff and so do u know a easy software who can synchronise audio an sound?
thx u for your time, i hope to be understanf.
chees from paris, france
Fran Guidry said in post # 22,
on March 31st, 2014 at 3:34 pm
Vincent, thanks for visiting.
Yes, all the audio is unprocessed, straight from the H2 or the Q3HD or the Lumix camera.
In your case I would suggest that you might use the Q3HD for a very close shot, say just your hands on the guitar, and use that to capture the audio. Then use the Sanyo for a full body shot or some other angle, and edit the two clips together in post production.
Here is a look at some possible angles and locations for the Q3HD: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/03/12/playing-the-angles-with-the-zoom-q3hd/
Then I would recommend REAPER with the FFmpeg extensions as a tool for merging the two files and using the audio from the Q3HD. I used that program in the “Playing the Angles” video, and I did a couple of posts about using REAPER for video editing: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/10/28/pc-video-in-reaper-4/ is the latest.
Fran
vincent said in post # 23,
on March 31st, 2014 at 6:48 pm
thx a lot fran,
always clear and fast responses, i ll go that way.
i began recording guitar after seeing your videos, thx to u i m addict to little recorder hehe 😉
u helped me to not spend money this time.
thx you again to share your experiences with us!
MERCI beaucoup 🙂
Vincent said in post # 24,
on April 3rd, 2014 at 11:06 am
well, with your advice i just use the q3hd as a microphone and the sanyo as camera.
i try to use reaper but on my macbook (6 yold) its a little hard to use it, so i synch audio and video in imovie hd and try to minimise noise with audacity. thx again for your advice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5HZ9ygHSLc
Fran Guidry said in post # 25,
on April 3rd, 2014 at 11:54 am
Ah, yes, on a Mac you have iMovie, I’m sure that’s more friendly than REAPER for video.
Is it possible to cut between two cameras in iMovie?
Amazing playing, what a lot of patience to learn that piece!
Fran
Vincent said in post # 26,
on April 3rd, 2014 at 10:27 pm
bonjour Fran,
well, i guess its possible but i didnt try … i need to read the manual first.
thx u again Fran, u teach me so much with this website in the way to record guitar.
you re my obiwan kenobi 😉
with the pleasure to hear more music of you, and read other test .
Best regards.
Vincent
Fran Guidry said in post # 27,
on April 4th, 2014 at 12:02 am
You are very kind, thank you. If you wish to hear more of my music perhaps you know of my other music site: http://www.kaleponi.com
Fran
Vincent said in post # 28,
on April 10th, 2014 at 3:32 am
bonjour Fran,
yeah :p my 7 months son like the “grand’father’s cloak” just before sleeping… ;p thx u Fran!
i v got another question about zoom recorders.
i v got the opportunity to buy another zoom recorder for a really small price, i can choose between the h2, h2n or h4n.
with your experiences between those devices, wich one ll you take to record only audio with the internal mics?
As i show you with my video i play acoustic guitar like you ( i used audio from q3hd ).
Thanks you again for your time and patience.
Take care
Vincent
Fran Guidry said in post # 29,
on April 10th, 2014 at 9:34 am
I would say the H2 is out. Between the other two, the H2n is smaller, lighter, simpler to operate and has great battery life. The H4n accepts phantom powered condenser mics and can do overdubbing and multi-tracking but is more complicated to use.
So which is more useful to you? Long battery life – or – XLR inputs and overdubbing?
Fran
Vincent said in post # 30,
on April 10th, 2014 at 10:06 am
hi Fran,
Thx u for answering me again.
H2n sounds great.
vincent
Haris Karachristianidis said in post # 31,
on May 2nd, 2014 at 7:54 am
Hi Fran, what is the line out volume of H2 and what is the recording level of Q3HD to have optimum undistorted audio recording?
Thank you!
Fran Guidry said in post # 32,
on May 2nd, 2014 at 8:49 am
It’s been quite a while since I did this post and I can’t really recall the settings. Since I’m using the line input on the Q3HD there is no level control on the Q3HD. The only controls are the input level and headphone out of the H2 or other recorder, and those must be set to match the source. If you watch the video you’ll see the trick – set the H2 or other audio recorder up as you’ll be using it, but place the Q3HD so you can see the rear screen. This allows you to monitor the levels into the Q3HD while you adjust the audio recorder levels. Then move the camera to its framing position and you’re ready to go.
Fran