Second Look at the H2n – External Mics and Line In
Here are some more observations on the new Zoom H2n recorder. In this entry we’ll look at the Mic/Line input for connecting external mics and line level sources. In the H2 these were separate inputs, with the mic input controlled by the Mic Gain H-M-L switch while the line input had no adjustment. On the H2n these inputs are combined and the Mic Gain dial adjusts the sensitivity of that input.
External mics with the H2n
I rarely used external mics with my H2, but others at the Zoom forum tested and indicated that it is quite noisy. I’m open to the possibility that the external mic pre of the H2n could be a gem, with plenty of clean gain and headroom, but the only way to know is give it a try.
My first use of the external preamp was a test to see if the external mic could be used as part of the four channel recording capability of the H2n. In the four channel mode using internal mics, the front XY pair and rear MS pair each contribute a stereo file. I read an internet post indicating that an external mic could be used and it would replace the XY pair. This would allow 4 channel recording for other than surround purposes.
I was disappointed when I plugged in the Rode NT4 because it delivered a much lower signal level than the internal MS mics and there was no way to adjust the gain independently. I could record four channels, but two of them were much lower in volume than the others. I assumed (and you know what that means) that the NT4 was just low in sensitivity.
Today I tried again, comparing the H2n with the NT4 to a pair of Shure KSM141s into the Echo Audiofire Pre8.
Two Recording Tools
Here’s the mic setup I used.
Two XY arrays in tandem
Once again the level available from the H2n->NT4 was unimpressive. I don’t record hot, but these levels were down around -27 dBFS. By the time I added 9 dB of digital gain to get this track to match the ones from the Echo, the noise level was pretty severe. Here are the clips with matched levels:
Echo Audiofire with Shure KSM141
Hey, looking in the docs actually turned up something. Input gain is listed as 0 to 39 dB, which is definitely on the low side. So unless there’s a firmware update that adds some gain without raising the self-noise, this external mic input is better suited to amplified concert tapers and drummers rather than acoustic guitarists. And it’s even worse news for folks interested in recording nature sounds and sound effects using external mics.
Line In on the H2n
I’ve used my H2 to record several shows by connecting to the PA mixing board. I find this is usually a cleaner sound than simply miking the room. I almost always have camera sound as well, so I can mix the board track with a room track. But the H2 has a serious weakness for my purpose – its Line Input is too sensitive for the outputs of a common PA mixer. The result is a horrible clipped mess. There’s no adjustment to reduce the sensitivity on the H2 and the tape outs on most mixing boards do not have a level control, so I’ve resorted to a passive attenuator, a simple ganged variable resistor which I use to cut the signal from the board to the H2.
I had hoped that the H2n would offer a solution. A built-in pad (fixed attenuator) would be ideal, or a wide gain range on the line input, with a low minimum sensitivity. Looking at the specs in the announcement, and then at the documentation, I found no mention of a more useful Line In connection. But a test was in order to see if things were improved.
I set up a comparison between the Line In on the H2 and the same on the H2n by connecting two hardware outputs of my Echo Audiofire Pre8 to the Line In on the two Zooms. I used an adapter to split the mono output to two channels. I adjusted the gain on the H2n to 0, there’s no gain adjustment for the Line In on the H2. To generate the test signal I used REAPER and created a 1 khz sine tone with a level of -18 dBFS – this is about 0 dBVU and should be a good starting point for evaluating a line level connection. When I checked the two Zoom recorders they were both clipped. I reduced the level and both recorders showed the same levels as they dropped below clipping.
My test tells me that the Line In on the H2n performs the same as it does on the H2, so I’ll still be bringing my passive attenuator with me when I record from the mixing board.
This entry was posted on Thursday, September 1st, 2011 at 8:40 pm and is filed under Recording. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Scott said in post # 1,
on March 25th, 2015 at 10:48 am
Thanks for your detailed reply, but I’m referring to the H2:
http://www.zoom.co.jp/products/h2
Fran Guidry said in post # 2,
on March 25th, 2015 at 3:31 pm
OK, the H2 has similar functionality but it’s controlled through the menu rather than a separate control. Unfortunately, according to page 22 of the manual:
” When anything is plugged into the [EXT MIC
IN] jack or [LINE IN] jack, the built-in mics
are deactivated and all mic pattern
indicators are out.”
so it appears that you will not be able to record using mics and line input at the same time with H2.
Fran
Scott said in post # 3,
on March 26th, 2015 at 8:19 am
Thank you Fran.
Sjoerd said in post # 4,
on August 17th, 2015 at 10:43 pm
Hi Fran, thanks for all your audio research! I am using the Zoom H2n usually with external microphones and a small portable preamp build by Church Audio. Recently I noticed the option to connect the Zoom H2n directly to my Nexus 7 (android device) with an app called USB Audio Recorder PRO ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudiorecorderpro ). And you need an OTG cable. This way the audio file would be saved on the Nexus 7 instead of the SD card in the Zoom H2n. This looks very interesting when recording of course 🙂 however do you think it has audio recording quality advantages? Regards, Sjoerd
Fran Guidry said in post # 5,
on September 10th, 2015 at 2:53 pm
My expectation would be that this would capture the same quality audio as an internal recording or one using USB to a PC or Mac. The same mics, preamps, and a/d conversion would be in play, so the audio would be the same … at least that’s my theory.
Looks interesting, but I’m always after video, so a dedicated audio only app has limited interest for me.
Fran
Christian said in post # 6,
on October 24th, 2015 at 7:15 am
Hi Fran.. tnx for info about H2n. I’m thinking about getting it, but I’m in a dilemma to buy H2n or H4nSP. Main use would be for recording acoustic guitar and vocal… and for that I want three separate tracks recorded simultaneous. One channel would be guitar, second would be vocal (for example, external condenser mic) and third would be signal from my amp (line out from amp), a little bit reverb from amp. I do not care if the volume levels of that three channels are not well adjust… I can easily adjust volume levels later in some audio editing software, as long I get 3 separate tracks.
So what is your thinking about this, and what would you recommend me?
Sorry for my english if I made some mistakes. Thank you for your response in advance.
Christian
Fran Guidry said in post # 7,
on October 24th, 2015 at 8:22 am
It would be pretty tricky to accomplish your goal with the H2n. For one thing, there’s no simple way to connect an external condenser mic to the H2n because it doesn’t have an XLR input or phantom power.
In my experiments I was able to record two channels from the rear mics on the H2n while capturing two other channels through the line input, so if you were to use the H2n for the vocal _and_ you use a pickup rather than a mic to capture the guitar you could have your three separate signals. If you were planning to mic your guitar then the H2n is definitely not for you.
I’m not an expert on the H4n, I owned one only for a very short time. But it does provide the XLR and phantom power needed to attach an external condenser. But in order to capture your three channels you’ll need to either use the built-in mics for the vocal while plugging in your guitar and amp signals, or you’ll need to connect two signals to the external combo jacks while adapting the third signal to go into the 1/8″ stereo jack.
Ideally I would suggest that you save up until you can get either an H6 or an R16. These two units will do what you want and much more.
Fran
Christian said in post # 8,
on October 24th, 2015 at 9:28 am
H2n, about phantom power we use condenser mic with phantom powered by 9V Internal Battery, for example Rode M3 mic. Then that mic should work, right? 🙂 And then we have mic from H2, condenser mic on line in… then only is left signal from my amp wich is “1/4” plug. But I get you, it’s tricky to do that.
But H4nSP has two XLR/TRS input jacks, so with him there should be no problem. Mic from H4 (one track), first XLR is condenser mic (second track), and second XLR/TRS input is my amp (third track). Right? 🙂
Fran Guidry said in post # 9,
on October 24th, 2015 at 10:54 am
You’ve got it right.
With an H2n and your Rode M3 and either some soldering or some adapters you might be able to put two signals into the 1/8″ jack. When that input is used it replaces the front mics on the H2n, so you must use the rear mics of the H2n. If you do this be sure to turn off plugin-power when using the 1/8″ jack.
With the H4n your plan will work.
Fran
Christian said in post # 10,
on October 24th, 2015 at 11:51 am
Yeah, thank you so much for talk about this, I appreciate that. Take care you!
Clyde said in post # 11,
on November 23rd, 2015 at 11:29 am
I’ve been recording the band with the H2N on a tripod front and center with marginal results. On occasion we play a venue with the whole kit and kaboodle in the back (mixers, mics, lights, lots of cool stuff). I’d love to hook the Zoom to the mixer board and not blow the H2N to smithereens, but have been reluctant to. Thanks for this post. I will order the linked attenuator, but (obviously) will need to adapt to the 1/4″ and 1/8″ holes on mixer and H2N line in. In which direction is the signal flowing on that attenuator? Kinda gotta know that in order to get the right adaptation. I’m sure there’s a level of ignorance in this query you’re not accustomed to. Sorry for that.
Fran Guidry said in post # 12,
on November 23rd, 2015 at 12:52 pm
Since there are no active or polarized components in that attenuator, there is no direction of signal or current flow. But the attenuator I use has male RCA on one end and female RCA on the other. I’m embarrassed that I didn’t include a link or a picture in my post.
Here’s a picture:
And here’s the link to the site: http://www.electronicplus.com/prodSearch.asp?prod_search=10-105&Submit=Search
Fran
Bryan said in post # 13,
on November 24th, 2015 at 3:54 am
Thanks for the post, Fran!
I recently bought an H2n and I’ve been thinking of buying a 1/4″female to 1/8″male adapter to connect my guitar straight to the line input of the recorder. Will this plan work? Thanks for your response in advance.
Bryan
Fran Guidry said in post # 14,
on November 24th, 2015 at 6:54 am
This will work but you’ll also need to convert your mono guitar signal to two channels or you will have to deal with a stereo file with signal on only one channel.
Fran
Bryan said in post # 15,
on November 24th, 2015 at 7:02 am
Thanks for the quick reply. I’m quite new to this kinds of stuff so could you explain to me what you meant in simpler terms? The way I understood it is that if I connect the something to the line input, it takes the place of the X/Y mics. So I assume that it already functions as stereo or is it different because I connected a guitar? Sorry for being confusing, English isn’t my first language. Thank you for answering!
Bryan
Fran Guidry said in post # 16,
on November 24th, 2015 at 7:59 am
The input jack on the H2n is stereo, also called TRS for tip-ring-sleeve. This three conductor jack has left channel, right channel, and common ground on the three segments.
If you plug in a normal 1/8″ (3.5mm) TS (tip-sleeve) two channel plug, you will short out one of the channels so no signal will be delivered to that side of the stereo pair. You will have a good recording, your signal is mono, after all, but your recording will be on one “side” of the stereo pair. So if you play the recording back you will hear it on only one side of your speakers or headphones.
You can fix this in two ways. There are adapters that will convert one channel to two, although they can be tricky to find. Or you can use a program like Audacity to convert the signal after you make your recording.
Fran
Bryan said in post # 17,
on November 24th, 2015 at 10:15 am
Ok, so please correct me if I’m wrong… I’m thinking of using this: http://ph.rs-online.com/web/p/jack-trs-connectors/0392605/ combined with these: http://www.lazada.com.ph/5pcs-stereo-mic-headset-audio-adapter-35mm-to-65mm-male-to-female-gold-plated-converter-connecter-1959782.html?mp=1 to make my regulr TS guitar jack viable for stereo on the h2n. This should work right?
Bryan
Fran Guidry said in post # 18,
on November 24th, 2015 at 12:01 pm
I don’t see any indication that the first item you linked converts the signal. It appears to be a plug that you would use to build a custom cable by soldering.
Here are some parts that would work:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=7138&gclid=CjwKEAiAstCyBRDiqu75hvnX82kSJACgYI_Qh99UVOTzgNKekWKlNdykobPe39alrzIY8esffP_7IRoClgfw_wcB
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-GPP-419-Female-4-Inch-Adapter/dp/B001JYSMV0
Then your 1/4″ to 1/8″ adapter can complete the chain and you’ll have your guitar plugged into both channels of H2n.
Fran
Bryan said in post # 19,
on November 24th, 2015 at 5:01 pm
Ok thanks and I have one last question. Do I use the adapter on both sides?
(guitar <- 1/4" TS to TRS adapter TS to TRS 1/4″ adapter -> TRS 1/4″ to 1/8″ adapter -> H2n)
or do I only put the adapters on one side?
(guitar TS to TRS 1/4″adapter -> 1/4″ to 1/8″ TRS adapter -> H2n)
Sorry for too much asking but I appreciate you helping around by answering my questions. Thank you!
Bryan
Fran Guidry said in post # 20,
on November 24th, 2015 at 5:52 pm
For the adapter I found you’ll just need those two adapters plus your regular guitar cord.
Guitar -> regular cord -> mono to stereo adapter -> 1/4 to 1/8 adapter -> H2n
Fran
Bryan said in post # 21,
on December 1st, 2015 at 5:13 am
Good Day Fran! I’ve tried the one that you’ve told me, “Guitar -> regular cord -> mono to stereo adapter -> 1/4 to 1/8 adapter -> H2n” but still it records on mono (just on left),
any advice? thanks
Bryan
kwame sulu said in post # 22,
on December 1st, 2015 at 4:38 pm
Zoom H2 user. Using the line in while using usb power was noisy, but I noticed a measurable improvement when just using the batteries. This leads Me to believe most of the noise is being introduced thru the usb and so I’m going to buy the adapter and see how that helps. I was using line level sources (samplers) thru the H2 to the DAW (fl studio 10)… the batteries were much more to my liking when recording at 48Khz, but of course, batteries never lasted long enough. Hope this helps anyone.
kwame sulu said in post # 23,
on December 1st, 2015 at 4:46 pm
not to mention, I didn’t have to unplug the usb , to benefit from the improved sound of battery powered operation. As i believe that the batteries or adapter take priority over the usb power as long as batteries or adapter is connected. Usb still sent sound thru and much clearer. Only when my batteries died did I have to reboot the H2 and whatever daw i was using it with. Thats when i noticed the noise become worse when limited to usb power. I went back and forth many times prior to them dying, trying to figure out what all the fuzz was, so I’m certain until further notice. Well it’s my theory anyways. So investing in that power adapter and quality cables.
Fran Guidry said in post # 24,
on December 1st, 2015 at 10:07 pm
Bryan the only thing I can suggest is to check the connection between the adapters and the recorder. I often use masking tape to secure a chain of adapters like this. Also confirm that the adapters are the correct items.
Fran
Fran Guidry said in post # 25,
on December 1st, 2015 at 10:09 pm
Kwame sulu sorry I don’t have my H2 or H2n any more to try and replicate your issue.
Fran
Steve bee said in post # 26,
on December 15th, 2015 at 4:39 pm
I’m trying to use H2n to record line-in to mp3 and turn off the darn microphones? What am I missing. Can disable mics. Easily demoed, simply plug in line-in cable, hit record and whistle. You will see meters respond and can hear room on recording. What the heck? No way to shut this off? Hard to believe. . . . What am I missing here, the “intention of the design”?
Fran Guidry said in post # 27,
on December 15th, 2015 at 5:46 pm
Check the mic pattern selector on the top of the mic. It’s a knob that was kinda hard to turn on my recorder, but it selects between rear mics, front mics, or two different combinations of all the mics. The line input only turns off/replaces the front mics, so you need to turn the mic selector to the front mics if you want only the line in signal to be recorded.
Fran
Andi said in post # 28,
on January 2nd, 2016 at 6:43 am
Hi guys,
im trying to connect two microphones to my h2n with a 2-mono-cinch-female to one-cinch male Adapter but i get both microphones on both tracks. I would like to have one mic on one channel. Is this possible with the h2n?
Andi
Fran Guidry said in post # 29,
on January 2nd, 2016 at 8:24 am
There are two kinds of adapters that look the same. One kind combines two mono signals into one stereo like you want. The other kind splits one stereo signal out to two stereo signals, for people who want to share headphones. It sounds like you got the second kind of adapter, at least that’s what happened to me.
Fran
Gary said in post # 30,
on February 27th, 2016 at 5:15 am
Do you know of any portable, (relatively) inexpensive solutions to boost the gain for a line-in condenser mic (audio-technica at897); I’m in the field and would like to travel without a mixer.
Fran Guidry said in post # 31,
on February 27th, 2016 at 8:13 am
Will you be capturing the result on an H2n? Or is this for a camera input?
There are camera oriented solutions but the ones I know about cost the same as a Zoom H5 or H6. I don’t know of a portable preamp with phantom power and clean gain that would be cheaper than these recorders.
Fran
Gary said in post # 32,
on February 27th, 2016 at 8:36 am
H2n. The mic can run on battery power, so phantom power isn’t necessary.
Fran Guidry said in post # 33,
on February 27th, 2016 at 10:02 am
In that case you might only need a passive adapter to get from XLR to 1/8″ stereo. The “line in” on the H2n actually has 39 dB of gain available.
Here’s a vendor who builds location recording equipment: http://naiant.com/studio-electronics-products/inline-devices/ipa-flexible-power-inline-amplifier/ I haven’t used his products but the specs seem like they might meet your needs.
Check the Taperssection forum: http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=4.0 these guys use a lot of portable equipment and might have some useful info.
Fran
Vito said in post # 34,
on March 18th, 2016 at 4:54 am
Interesting read! I am making a short film and I’m using the H2 together with a 1/4” to 1/8” adapter for my Rode NTG 2. My problem is that the sound is really low. Another problem is that it only records in one channel (it’s set to two channel recording). The main issue, though, is that the sound is so low. Is there any way to fix this?
Fran Guidry said in post # 35,
on March 18th, 2016 at 9:19 am
H2 or H2n? In either case, the gain available is limited compared to some other recorders, and in the case of the H2, preamp self-noise can be an issue as well. I don’t know of any way to raise the recorded level if you already have the gain turned all the way up.
The issue of one channel vs two is due to your adapter. There are adapters out there that turn a single 1/4″ into a stereo 1/8″ but it can be tricky finding the right one.
Fran
Paul said in post # 36,
on August 31st, 2016 at 10:00 am
Hi all,
I want to record straight from line out on aer amp into zoom h2n line in – has anybody found any issues doing this?
Paul
Fran Guidry said in post # 37,
on August 31st, 2016 at 12:09 pm
The line in on the H2n is stereo, so that’s one issue to deal with. I’ve used converters to turn a mono signal into stereo, and I’ve done it in post with my DAW, so it’s not a big deal, but it’s a deal.
Other than that, it depends on the level of the signal coming out of the AER amp. If it’s too hot you’ll clip, and will need an external attenuator to manage levels. If it’s not too hot you’re on your way. The only way to know for sure is to try it.
Fran
Erik said in post # 38,
on November 23rd, 2016 at 1:28 pm
Does anyone know how to disable the mic and only capture the line in signal when recording directly from a mixer? I get a good signal from my mackie mixer but also sound from the mics on the zoom. Can’t find any information in the manual 🙁
Fran Guidry said in post # 39,
on November 23rd, 2016 at 2:43 pm
Check the mic selector on the top of the H2n. If it’s set to front channel only you’ll get the line in by itself. If it’s set to either of the multi-channel options it will combine the rear mics with the line in. See page 11 of the manual.
Fran
Erik said in post # 40,
on November 23rd, 2016 at 10:33 pm
Wow, thanks! i’ll check that after work today. Forgot to thank you earlier for a great article. Thanks!
Liviu said in post # 41,
on March 16th, 2017 at 11:34 pm
Hello! I recently bought a recorder Zoom H2n. Owning also a set of lavaliere PRO88W ATH-R35. How can I use a lavalier microphone for recording, along with the recorder in spatial mode (last firmware 2.0 for H2n) and that would be the arrangement of microphones. I would like finally to have registration as spatial (used by YouTube) because it will be mixed in Premiere with video recording 360.
Fran Guidry said in post # 42,
on March 17th, 2017 at 7:54 am
The surround configuration of the H2n requires the use of all the internal mics. Using the lavalier replaces the front stereo pair, so surround recording is not possible while using the lavalier.
I’m sorry but I have no experience mixing for 360 video or using Premiere so I am unable to give any useful advice.
Fran
Liviu said in post # 43,
on March 18th, 2017 at 1:39 pm
Thank you, Fran!
Heath said in post # 44,
on March 24th, 2018 at 4:03 am
Hi Fran,
Around 2 years ago I bought a ZOOM H2n to do interviews and the presenting of my program on Australian Community Radio. I pre-record all my radio material using the H2n and also edit the live interviews recorded with it in my small sound booth at home, mixing it with a NCH Wavepad Masters Edition. Its a great simple little recorder and nice for my purposes. I must congratulate you on your excellent replies to your posts. Although I’m a singer/songwriter, I’m certainly no sound engineer, so I am always learning something new from any source. I’m so glad that I found your homebrewedmusic posts and will keep in for more tips.
Kind regards,
Heath said in post # 45,
on March 24th, 2018 at 4:29 am
Hi Fran,
Following my post of a few minutes ago, I popped across to youTube and listened to you and Patrick Downes playing Waimea Lullaby back in 2014. It was enthralling – the expression on your faces was pure, sensitive musicality – I turned out the lights and played it several times. It took me straight back to another place it time when I was 18 and my first album purchase, one recorded by The Hawaiian Hula Boys.
Thank you both so much for this unexpected pleasure from the past.